momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

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momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by kujo on Tue 30 Dec 2008, 7:53 am

السلام عليكم
the network with the subcatchments figure 3 page 2.46........ana mesh 3aref 23mel Dsum function for "CAsum" column and Dmax fuction for "tc" column.
mesh el mafrood tc=ti+tf ...and
ti : time from end of subcatchment to node
tf: time taken in sewer pipe
ya3ny for example : tc for pipe 2 ....subcatchments D in 10 mins and E in 15 mins btgam3 3alatool fe node 2

we A in 5 mins we B in 7 mins btgm3 fe node 1 we ba3d keda ymsho fe el pipe to node 2 in time " tf of pipe1 "
=1.76 mins

we C btgm3 fe node 3 in 10 mins we ba3d keda tmshy to node 2 in pipe 3 in time "tf of pipe 3" =1.75 mins

so Dmax function takes the bigger from
max of A and B ti (7 mins) + "tf of pipe1 " (1.76)= 8.76
max of direct D or E ti (15 mins) =15
C ti (10 mins) + "tf of pipe 3 " (1.75) =11.75

and finally dmax takes 15 mins

ezay 23mel el kalam dah Very Happy whats the function ?
thanks in advance ^^

kujo

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Re: momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by Mana on Tue 30 Dec 2008, 8:39 am

Ana ely a3rafo en Dmax msh 3alena y3ny msh 7anst3mlha ..
bensea l CAsum column enta bt7sabo mn el column CA ely howa fe table (2-a) enk bt3od tgam3 kol ely 7aytgam3 fe node 1 w kol ely bygam3 fe node 2 +kol ely bygam3 fe node 1w tgam3 kol ely bygam3 fe node 3 lowa7da w b3d kda tegam3 kol el bygam3 fe node1 w node 2 w node 3 la2n node 4 deh ely bygam3 feha kol ely fo2ha...dah benseba l column bta3 Ca sum
belnesba l tc column ana sa2lt w 3erft en enta masln fe node 1 enta bta7'od akbr t 3andk w noide 2 enta bta7'do bardo akbr t 3andk w dah kolo btgebo mn table (2-6) bardo....
dah ely ana a3rafo fe elmas2la deh lo 7ad 3ando ra2y a7san mn kol ely ana 2olto dah plz y2lo ....
ana kman lya so2al feha ana 7asbt l3'yt Qd laken ezay b2a 7asbt el Dcomp w el Dused 3ashan dol msh 3arfa agebhom ezay?????
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Re: momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by kujo on Tue 30 Dec 2008, 9:21 am

shokran 3ala el rad
ana t2reban shoft kol el columns we neseet el Dcomp Shocked ...how ta2reban we assume design velocity from 3-6 ft/s ....and we compute the Dcomp then we choose the Dused from the available we have "Dcom" and then calculate actual velocity for Dused ..not sure though
yareet law 7ad y3raf el 7al el sa7ee7 lel mas2ala deh
thanks

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Re: momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by Mana on Tue 30 Dec 2008, 9:24 am

tx fo ur replay ...ya rab ana kman ykon kalmy kan mofed lek w ykon sa7 Very Happy:D la2n ana b7elha kda w lo tel3 3'alt yb2a rabena yostr Very Happy:D
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Re: momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by amelsakka on Tue 30 Dec 2008, 2:26 pm

Just to make sure, we are talking about:
Figure (3), page 2.46
Tables (2a) and (2b), page 2.49

Kujo, you don't assume v here.

Goal of this problem:
Design pipes to drain rain flow:
- get Q (from CIA)
- then get D from Q (Manning)
- then check v
- then get tf

Steps of solving this problem:

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Re: momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by Mana on Tue 30 Dec 2008, 5:27 pm

Ana ely fehmto en akalmy sa7 ..Ahmed el Dr fe el lectur sal7 el Tc howa kan tab3ha 3'at howa sal7ha fe el lecture w 2al enha 15 zay ma enta 3amlha...
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Re: momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by amelsakka on Tue 30 Dec 2008, 5:41 pm

I didn't attend the lecture, thank you for the information. I added the note anyway just to make the steps complete.

Yes, what you said is absolutely right. You explained how to get (C*A) and (tc) for each pipe, and I just rephrased what you said and continued clearing up the rest of problem.
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Re: momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by kujo on Tue 30 Dec 2008, 6:05 pm

thanks for your effort Ahmed and Mana
ana fehmt el mas2la delwa2ty el7amd LELAH Very Happy
3o2bal ama n7l kewayes fe el 2mt7an kolna Smile

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Re: momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by kujo on Tue 30 Dec 2008, 6:10 pm

howa fe so2al...howa el masa2l ely ba3d keda fe el notes 3alena?
the ones with the excavation and costs

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Re: momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by amelsakka on Tue 30 Dec 2008, 6:53 pm

That was the last problem explained at the last section in lab.
Please anyone corrects me, if I am wrong.
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Re: momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by bassem zakarya on Tue 30 Dec 2008, 9:05 pm

thx Ahmed for ur effort
bgd gazak allah kol 5eer Very Happy

small note about diameter calculation: fy wara2 l dr. page 2-40 the second paragraph "The diameters are calculated using Manning's equation to estimate the flow time tf and are rounded to the next available size..."

l kalam l a7mar dah i think ennoh 3'alat and it should be (computed diameter Dcomp instead of the flow time tf)
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Re: momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by amelsakka on Wed 31 Dec 2008, 11:39 am

Ba3dd ma 3endakom ya fandem :)
I can't see what's wrong with the paragraph.

"The diameters are calculated using Manning's equation to estimate the flow time tf and are rounded to the next available size..."

Red: step (7)
Green: step (10)
Blue: step (8)
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Re: momken shar7 le network 2 in sewers notes

Post by bassem zakarya on Wed 31 Dec 2008, 12:56 pm

i think the sentence is related to diameters not tf cuz the relation between D and tf is indirect so if i want to merge this relation i should mention the velocity
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